This is part two of our conversation with Roberto Zangrandi, the secretary-general at E.DSO. We discussed the next steps for smart meters and the smart grid and talked about the future of the industry. Mr. Zangrandi also shared his most valuable lessons. If you haven’t already, we advise you also take a look at part one of the interview, here.

We are seeing the mass implementation of smart meters across Europe, and we can say that smart metering has come to life. Can you tell us about your role in this birth of smart metering standardization?

Well, I was there since the beginning, in Italy on July 1st 2001, as Enel started the deployment of its meters. As we all know, there are several different communication standards for smart meters. At E.DSO we do not recommend one standard rather than other ones. Smart metering has become something technologically sophisticated, but, in some respect, even much simpler than it was before.

The European grid operators will adopt the smart metering technology and software most suitable for their purpose. Without a proper measurement system, you can’t deliver flexibility in demand/response, and it would become difficult to incorporate features and services like the management of, let’s say, recharging for electrical vehicles, data exchange and similar…

Independently on the format of the language, it is important to realize first how that data is defined and then used. Their management must be based on shared decisions among the respective stakeholders and data owners, tailored on purpose and scope. E.DSO elaborated on this in a paper that can be found here: https://www.edsoforsmartgrids.eu/wp-content/uploads/EDSO-Data- management-position-paper.pdf

At this moment, we don’t have a sole and unique metering standard in Europe, no real interchangeability and compatibility. What do you think about that?

E.DSO can’t advocate for a single standard. If the members would ask for it, and agree on a single design, we, as an association, could advocate it, certainly. Still, this is not yet the case. I prefer keeping open a strong channel with the Members, the manufacturers and the standardisation bodies to be ready to tackle all improvements and progresses that show-up in the sector. My personal opinion is that it could be more convenient to have a tool with high interoperability and languages converging on as many aspects as possible. Maybe at some point, we will reach that because of convenience but it is not something that we see as a battle to be initiated at E.DSO at this moment.
The DSOs acknowledge the need of specific sets of technology to meet the market demand, and they will, put that high-up on the agenda of E.DSO’s technology and knowledge sharing committee.

In your opinion, what is the next step, for the next generation? Something that maybe doesn’t seem that important now but we know will be in the future?

We are working on that and we want to steer the direction of technologies relevant for the association.
Our two pillars are policy setting and technology analysis. We have eight or nine working groups within the technology and knowledge sharing committee. And smart metering evolution is among the subjects on our technology radar. Very soon the prosumers will be around 45% of a standard customer basis, then there’ll be a convergence on that. The magnitude of the prosumers is the next step.

But still it’s not only about the measurement of the data, it is the quality, usability, and homogeneity of the data. We are interested in having an observation point on standardizing the universal language between different smart devices, but it’s not on us to decide that. Currently, there is no legislation about third players and data that utilities have. What is your position on this?

Currently, there is no legislation about third players and data that utilities have. What is your position on this?

That is a real issue. The data is a property first of the consumer him or herself. We have invested a lot of time and work in better defining the type of the data: what is commercial, strategic, personal, how to use that data, how not to misuse them… In all of these areas, specific agreements with DSOs, TSOs, aggregators and market players will necessarily exist. Still, beyond any agreement, definition of use and misuse, it is very important to pay attention to the security of the data per-se, as it’s mostly personal information.

I am more worried about the amount of data that are beyond the meter, with no regulation and no framework. The data that is derived from home appliances, applications or whatever smart device in your household, there are different approaches for them, different reference points…That is the “Wild West”. We haven’t identified any data mistreatment that could harm the network management, but we have been, and remain very careful about it.

It is important to have a single language, but that is not realistic to have. You will always have iOS and Microsoft, always have competing standards.

Regardless of the language, care should be taken for the purpose for which the data is used. What is important is that the data that is being handled is data that is necessary. And that the data that is collected is collected for the purpose you declared and you’ll use it exactly for that purpose. It is also important to identify to whom the data belongs, who owns it – in addition to what they do with it and why. And people must accept and agree on it. In short: the algorithm must stay negotiable.

And what do you think is the next step for the smart grid?

The next step for the smart grid will be that everything must truly be bi-directional. If the customer requires it, the grid must provide it. Also, it must be sophisticatedly simple as any other smart device. Since the consumers are not experts and electricians, the next smart grid environment for them must be plug & play, simpler and more user-friendly.

For example, the first generation of smart meters gave the consumers more data, data they never had before. But it also expected them to be more involved in order to get it. To press the button, to do something in order to receive the data. The next step is to make it more accessible and simpler fully respecting the privacy needs. If available to many, data must stay mandatorily anonymous.

There are examples of water utilities using a smart metering system of an electricity company for collecting data. Do you see that in the future?

I am not surprised by that. I think it’s healthy that data collection technologies are intertwined. Certainly, care must be taken to adapt the technology to the specifics of use. And the above stays there as well!

The problem could arise from the reactivity of the devices and the remote-controlling of the devices. For instance it may be convenient to associate the measured quantities with an algorithm to limit or increase consumption for instance at certain times of the day, where appropriate.

This can be done with electricity, but I’m not sure that it can be done with water and gas. If you must limit consumption, you can instruct each individual meter to make dynamic limitation of electricity. You could set up the limit and be alerted once you’ve reached the maximum. That could be one of the solutions in case of the need to graduate the consumption of electricity in certain areas.

Water would be the next big problem in the world and Europe as well, and this could be done for water as well. You could have an alert that would tell you that you’re close to your limit and that you’re using too much water or something that could limit your water usage. That is maybe not comfortable, but it might become reality, in my opinion.

People could, in the future, have a device that would function as an energy manager, that could manage when homes would use energy in the network. Do you think that’s possible?

It is already happening. People have intelligent management systems and if you are a smart prosumer, you must have it. It’s not only for the big prosumers but it could also be used in the households. I don’t have all the technical specs and details, but they manage energy with the help of the intelligent devices that determine how much energy is used and how much is returned to the grid.So, it is already here and happening.

There will surely be more sophisticated applications for the households. You already have some applications that help you control lights, heating, etc. but they could become more sophisticated in the future.
We can now see people setting the room temperature from afar, and they can readjust it remotely if they want. It is technically easy, at hand, usable reality.

I would like to emphasize that an interactive approach should be made to combine heating and cooling control with hot water and electricity control and other things. And if you say that the same language would be recommended, it’s up to developers to decide which one could be best.

For the DSOs, the language is not relevant. What is relevant is an algorithm that is related to the distribution business and that can be managed.

For sure, there, needs to be a technology behind services and devices that we use, but it’s not up to EDSO to develop it. On contrary, we should be able to say what we need and the developers should work on it.

What is the most important lesson you’ve learned throughout your career?

Be humble and listen.
I was not an energy man. I’ve been in it for over 20 years, so I’ve become an energy man. I started as a journalist, transferred to automotive, I did consulting…then I landed in energy, but still did communication, lobbying, public affairs, etc.

What I learned immediately as a financial journalist is to listen and be honest enough to tell my speaking partner to explain what I didn’t understand.

If you don’t know, ask. Don’t pretend..

Conclusion

E.DSO can’t advocate for a single standard, but they would do it if their members were interested in it.

In this moment, the data is basically a property of DSOs shared following agreements, and E.DSO have iE.DSO can’t advocate for a single standard, but they would do it if their members were interested in it. In this moment, the data is basically a property of DSOs shared following agreements, and E.DSO have invested a lot of time and work in better defining the type and security of the data and the use and purpose of the data. To allow access to data by third parties, it is very important to define who will have access and what to do with it and why.
Since it is difficult to involve the user, the future is the plug and play Smart grid, which will be much simpler and user-friendly.

Question for the audience

Do you think that it is necessary to introduce special home device that will make it easier for the prosumer to use the new technologies in further development of the Smart city?